Join Mike as he sits down with John Driscoll, CEO of Naked Development, to explore the intricate journey from app idea to multimillion-dollar success. Learn how understanding human problems and leveraging investor insights can shape your startup strategy. Discover why speed, simplicity, and strategic partnerships are crucial in the app development process. John offers insights from launching over 500 apps and shares his vision for aligning technology with user needs. Tune in to uncover strategies that might just help you transform your app idea into the next big success story.
John Driscoll is the CEO of Naked Development, a cutting-edge app development company that has collaborated with major clients such as PGA and Bank of America. With a keen focus on transforming simple app ideas into multimillion-dollar ventures, John is known for his strategic approach towards startup success and app market launches. His experience encompasses over 500 app launches, further establishing his authority and insight into the tech startup ecosystem.
In this fascinating episode of "Gaining the Technology Leadership Edge," tech entrepreneur John Driscoll shares his experienced insights with host Mike into transforming innovative app concepts into lucrative businesses. As the CEO of Naked Development, John has played a pivotal role in the app launches for industry giants such as PGA and Bank of America. The conversation delves into his proven methodology for app development success, emphasizing the importance of understanding core human problems technology seeks to solve.
John provides a unique perspective on aligning app development with investor expectations, highlighting his formula for startup success which boasts a 70% funding acquisition rate. Key topics such as strategic partnerships, the role of speed in startup success, and the intrinsic value of human connection in this technology-driven world are explored. The episode also touches on how to effectively rally investor support and the importance of setting clear goals when aiming for multimillion-dollar valuations.
Encourage your listening by exploring these strategic insights in the complete episode. Stay tuned for more enlightening discussions on technology leadership every Wednesday at 8 am PT on YouTube and LinkedIn.
0:00:00 - (John): Technology is just a vehicle to solve problems. That's all it is. People make it out to be so much more than that, but it isn't. If you take a long time, you run out of money. The faster you go, the less money you spend. And money is air for a startup. When you run out of air, you're done. As a founder, your first big test is can you raise money and can you rally people around you? As more technology happens, then the value of human connection is going to be at a premium.
0:00:29 - (John): And, you know, scarcity creates value.
0:00:32 - (Mike): Ever wonder what it takes to transform a simple app idea into a multimillion dollar company? John Driscoll, CEO of Naked Development, has helped clients like PGA and Bank of America do just that. He's here to share his blueprint for startup success. Let's dive in. Welcome to the show, John.
0:00:50 - (John): But thank you for having me, Mike.
0:00:51 - (Mike): Truly appreciate it. So you've helped some really big names in the industry turn ideas into successful mobile apps. So what is the first thing you do when working with a client to turn their app concept into a reality?
0:01:06 - (John): Normally we get a flood of calls every month for people trying to, you know, pitch us. And, and the, the first question I ask is exactly the same question every single time. And it is really trying to understand the problem that, that they see in the world. Technology is just a vehicle to solve problems. That's all it is. People make it out to be so much more than that, but it isn't. And so I want to understand the human problem that they have that they think needs to be solved.
0:01:37 - (John): And I think that's important because it really says a lot about how the founder is looking at what they do. Because a lot of founders, I find, have not really thoroughly explored the problem. So that's probably the first thing that we do is we want to have a really clear understanding of that problem. And then I make everybody come up with the solution in three words or less.
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0:02:17 - (John): Awesome.
0:02:18 - (Mike): I like that because you're making them be extremely concise and then you can give them back your interpretation of, you know, what they said and that sort of thing. So with over 327 assets you've helped launch, and that's an incredible achievement, by the way. Congratulations on that.
0:02:34 - (John): It's probably way long, way more than that. Oh yeah, it's probably well over 500 now.
0:02:38 - (Mike): He mentioned what you do initially, but then what's the process after that to get to a finished market ready app?
0:02:44 - (John): Yeah, so we go through an approval process. We all get together and talk through their answers to those questions. We have that conversation and then we approve 12% of those customers to work with us out of all the ones that we hear. And from there we put them through a discovery day where we spend about four to five hours with them to really go through our process. That process, process really has been tried and true and it's just how we dig that idea out of you and we call it discovery because we really are trying to discover it and download everything that has gotten you here and understand so we can catch up as a team and then probably offer you some suggestions on best practices.
0:03:28 - (John): So it's very much a consulting experience with about four to five team members.
0:03:34 - (Mike): Awesome. It sounds very thorough. I've actually worked with some app developers before and it almost feels just robotic like the same process and it doesn't feel like it's customized to what I'm trying to do. But what you're doing seems more customized to what your client's looking for, which I think is great. That brings me to, I know you guys help with startups securing funding. So how do you align app development with what investors want to see?
0:04:02 - (John): I think we're coming from an investor standpoint from the very beginning because if you've ever been in an investment meeting, the questions I'm asking are very similar to an investor. So I think we're totally aligning you and preparing you for those questions from the very beginning. Which is why 70% of all the startups we work with raise funds. So we have seen a high number of financial investment from the investment community because we prepare you from the very get go for that process.
0:04:33 - (John): We had a really cool story. I was on Dave Meltzer. I don't know if you listen to Dave Meltzer. I was on his show, it's not out yet, but it's called the two Minute Drill. He did a special naked development episode that comes out in November on Prime. I was in there and they said man, your team, your people were so ready for our us and our questions. And I'm like they better be. I've been coaching them for this moment since they started. And that was really because we do come from that standpoint. We know what investors want and we're trying to prepare you for that.
0:05:08 - (Mike): Totally makes sense. What becomes a habit is what then helps you become successful. So that's actually really smart. And especially if they're looking to grow and get investors, you don't want to go down a pathway with the wrong company building your app only to find out nobody's going to want to invest in this. I think that's a huge one. But is there any kind of common thread or maybe a key factor that separates apps that go on to become multimillion dollar successes from those that don't?
0:05:33 - (John): The concept of a lean startup is really where the term naked comes from, and that I've seen in 500+apps is the. The founder knows that they have to start small and they need to prove things, and they're doing it scientifically, step by step. When you take that process, that way you are spending less money. So now you're financially a better startup. You are methodical, letting data drive your decisions instead of emotion, and you look very thoughtful as a founder.
0:06:07 - (John): It also allows you to go much faster. Speed in startup is everything, because if you take a long time, you run out of money. It's that simple. So the faster you go, the less money you spend. And money is error for a startup. When you run out of air, you're done. And that's what happens to a lot of them. I've seen them at the 11th hour starting to see traction, but they're just out of error. They went too slow, they wasted a lot of time.
0:06:34 - (John): So when I'm starting something and I'm involved on the ground level, I am trying to get to market well before the product's even done.
0:06:44 - (Mike): Years ago, gosh, it was early 2000s, really early 2000s, maybe late 1990s, I worked for a company that was the precursor to an iPad and they were called funpad. And actually, now that I think about it, they're more like ziosk that you see like in a Chili's or whatever, because their concept was, hey, we got kids at a restaurant, we need to keep them busy, so here's some games for them to play. But also you can place your order here, you can pay here, et cetera.
0:07:10 - (Mike): But as you said, they took such a long time to get going and, and they spent their money on silly things. Like back then, monitors were 1500, $1600, they'd have two or three on their desk. And finally the investor said, my wallet is closed until this thing is done. And they died because they took way too long. So to your point of moving quickly, I think that's huge because you only have a limited amount of money that people are going to be willing to give you to get your task done. We've all watched Shark Tank where they'll say, how much money have you raised? And they're like, $4 million. And all the sharks go, whoa.
0:07:45 - (Mike): Because they're like, that's people that are diluting my shares by investing more and more money. So we don't want. We don't really want that. But I remember that experience as a software developer. I could go to the hardware people and say, I need codes that come back when this happens. And that happens. Okay, sure. A couple of days later, you'd get there. That was neat because before that, I was always stuck with whatever the hardware would provide me. I couldn't ask for it.
0:08:07 - (Mike): But on the other hand, it was disappointing to see this really cool concept where they probably could have. They were years ahead of the market and they just took too long to get there and they went down. It's pretty sad. You guys focus a lot on strategic partnerships, from what I can tell. And so how important are partnerships and relationships with investors and clients in the success of the mobile app? So how important is that?
0:08:32 - (John): Gosh, that's one of the biggest things for founders. Can they rally people around them and make them believe in their cause? Right. They gotta see it not like a company, but like a cause. And you're trying to bring all these people around. And so that's so critical because. And that's why I really encourage people in my classes to have a newsletter and a group of people that you're talking to on a regular basis that are advising you and encouraging you and are part of it. Because when you bring all that together, you then investment comes easier.
0:09:04 - (John): People are often believers, and they're in as much as you are. And so if you need another round of funding, maybe a bridge loan or something like that, they're going to be quick to give it to you. And that has a lot to do with communication between you and your partners. As a founder, your first big test is, can you raise money and can you rally people around you? Once you've done that, can you sell your customer?
0:09:27 - (John): So I say there's three groups. Your partners, your investors, and your customers. You really got to bring all those people and make them believers, and you got to communicate to them and tell them what's going on. This is what's going on. And that social media plays such a great part in doing that as well. But I think it's even a closer inner circle that you have to bring.
0:09:45 - (Mike): In and communicate with and things that's essential because like, just to break it down in really simple terms, too many times people don't understand how the littlest things change the perspective of their customer about them. And once they have the wrong perception, they won't change that. Like I'll give you an example. Yesterday we had one dog that had been in the vet for teeth pulled the night before and then another one, as luck would have it, was having some pain. So we had to go to the vet and they had our one dog who had the pain. They were drawing blood, they were doing all this stuff and they had us in the waiting room. Then they had a couple of emergencies Wednesday coming out, they came out at least five times and said, we're so sorry, we're in the middle of an emergency.
0:10:23 - (Mike): Now he's moved on to this step. He has two more things to do. I gotta say, we waited an hour and a half, which normally would have irritated the hell out of me, but because they kept coming out and saying, hey, we're at this step now, I had buy in. I could have at any time said, you know what, just give me my dog, I'll come back another day. And I think that's the kind of service that you don't always see, especially in software companies, is when are you going to get this software done?
0:10:46 - (Mike): Oh, eventually.
0:10:48 - (John): Here's the attitude I've always maintained. And I think this is a lot of the secret to our success is our we're not selling software. We don't see it like that at Naked. We don't see it like that. We're partnering to try to create a company for them. And so by not putting the software development on the forefront, we're guiding them through the process on how they're going to get to market, how are they going to get sales.
0:11:15 - (John): And I'm constantly saying, let's get sales before the product's done. Let's get sales for the, let's get commitments before this app is out. You don't wait till a movie's out to start promoting it, right? You promote it. They promote. A lot of times they're like you're watching a trailer. Oh, when's this going to be out? Next year. Wow, I got to wait that long. That's great. That's anticipation that comes with buy ins. You want to start pre promoting. Instagram did it like nine months before they released.
0:11:42 - (John): And that's why they had such a successful launch. They were growing super fast just in the first few months of being out. So it's part of understanding how you launch a software company, how you launch a SaaS business of any kind. We are really helping them with that. Which puts us in a different category than their developer. Developers, unfortunately. They go, oh, what do you want to build? And then they go, send me the stuff.
0:12:08 - (Mike): And they build it, hey, I want a Tesla. And then Tesla ships you the parts and you put it all together. So like a kit. I have that same experience. Like I have a company that we do NetSuite development and it's much smaller scale on software development, but it's the same kind of thing. Like I try to work with them on. Can you foresee this and this ever happening in your company? Are you planning to go this road or this road? Because I want to help them with solutions for the future, not just for today.
0:12:35 - (Mike): And when you do it just for today, it does feel like you just ship them a kit. Oh, these are the five things you want to do. Okay, great. We checked the boxes. Here you go. It's done. And it doesn't help them grow. So what if you had to design an app that could predict which startups would become multimillion dollar companies? What would be the key features in that app?
0:12:55 - (John): So I would say one thing I would try to do is find an idea where the app is essentially successful for one individual. So let me give you an example of that. Your banking app, it doesn't require you to have friends on it for it to work, right? Works all by itself. And I use it, it promises that I can transfer money, I can deposit money, I can do these things, and it delivers on that promise every time.
0:13:28 - (John): That is much harder than people think it is. Most apps that people are starting have many sides to them, and I'm not discouraging that. Just requires a lot more effort to get launched. So I always say if the app can just be used, if it's a tool of some kind, I love the simplicity of that. That's one thing we love about ChatGPT. It doesn't require anybody else. It's you and the AI. You ask it a question, it gives you an answer and you're like, done.
0:13:57 - (John): And we love it. Everybody's using it. Google has barely changed their website at all in the last 20 years. It's the exact same thing. It's a bar and you put it in there and you still use it every day because of that. Those kind of tools are far and away the best solutions for things. And that simplicity of the solution is everything.
0:14:22 - (Mike): Yeah, totally makes sense. That's a good point about Google. Yep.
0:14:27 - (John): That's why I say sometimes. Yeah.
0:14:29 - (Mike): So what are some challenges that you might face with when trying to scale from like a basic idea to a multimillion dollar product?
0:14:38 - (John): The first step, becoming a million dollar product is actually, I don't want to say it's pretty easy. That's not that hard. It's when you're trying to scale, it becomes more about building a company and a culture and getting buy in from people. And that's a different thing because you can make a million dollar business and be just all by yourself. That's possible. In fact, lots of people have done it. I would call those side gigs for the most part. And they're nice, they're nice businesses. You can make good money, but you can't sell it or do anything with it. If you're going to make something that you eventually want to exit and grow or become a unicorn at some.
0:15:13 - (John): By the way, I, I always say there's unicorns and cash cows. Got to decide which one you want to be. So if you're really trying to scale up to a unicorn like business, which is a billion dollar valuation. Right. You're gonna have to spend a lot of time raising money, building partnerships and really building a culture of people and getting yourself reproducing yourself over and over again. Cause there's gonna be things that you do today that next year you're not gonna do.
0:15:39 - (John): And as a founder that's going to change. You're gonna slowly be doing less and less of the operation and you're gonna be doing more and more of the CEO stuff. And that process is, is, it's definitely there's growing pains involved, gone through it a couple times. It's interesting. And you have to really enjoy just being the leader of the company at some point.
0:16:02 - (Mike): Yeah. I think even as, as like a tech executive and that's who our audience is. I have experienced myself multiple times as like a CTO where you start out with a baby company that's just on the growth trajectory and you have a lot of hands on that you have to handle. But as you say, the bigger the company gets, the less of that hands on that happens because you grow your team and you start to have specialized positions. So Instead of having three people, all of whom cover five different things, you start to have 10, 11, 12 people who each have their specific tasks. But what I think is cool about something like a situation like that is as the person who started when they were first on that growth trajectory, you're all in on everything. Like you've seen the growth, you've helped make decisions about which direction to go.
0:16:48 - (Mike): I worked for a lot of years for a restaurant delivery service and one of the big keys to success was we focused on corporate catering clients and not residential. And when they finally realized that, like when they do an acquisition of another company, oh, they're 80% residential, probably not a company we should buy. Once they started to realize that stuff, they grew like crazy because they just had a consistent, almost like cookie cutter stamp of approval approach that just got them the right companies.
0:17:16 - (John): Yeah.
0:17:17 - (Mike): Now, when you first started naked development. Cause this has really got me curious. What were the key strategies used to TRA to attract clients like PJ and ups?
0:17:25 - (John): It's different than it is today because in the early days we were very much going after those big names, right. And there was a lot of outbound sales networking that I was doing in those days. As time went on, I realized I didn't want to do that long term. And I really liked startups. And so now we're 100% inbound marketing. So we just, we live off Google search. Right? Everybody searches. Really. The key term is best app developer in the world.
0:17:54 - (John): And I own that term. Like, I just, I've worked really hard to come up everywhere. So if you Google that and you're in Dubai, you're going to see me, you are going to find me. So we are going to get that call and most likely get to talk to that person every time. And that's different than it was in the old days where I was going to using contacts and you just be you. You know what, you have lots of drinks and bars.
0:18:20 - (John): I tell everybody that I spent a lot of time doing happy hour in bars. You're building relationships and you're getting to know people and you're not wasting your time with RFPs and nonsense like that. You learn how to not waste time doing the things that people think make you successful, but they don't. And so yeah, it was more networking. A lot of relationships and people going and being very specific about what I did.
0:18:46 - (John): I think the biggest problem is if people ask you what you do, it's not easy, it's not quick and simple and it's like a bunch of things. Then I don't really know what you are. So if something comes to mind, am I going to think of you? Not if you do a bunch of things right. We have that cognitive dissonance and you just can't connect the two. So I became the app guy from the very get go in 2008. And people, even when they didn't want apps in the beginning, they were still calling me.
0:19:18 - (John): They were like, hey, what's this app thing? Do we need one of these? And that was the conversations I was having in 2008. I had to convince CEOs that an app could help their company. And they were very skeptical. Let me tell you, most of what we did in 2008 was we couldn't sell a native app very easily. We were mostly selling mobile web in the beginning because people did recognize that 20% of their traffic or 10% of their traffic was starting to come up on safari on the phone. And they were like, we look terrible when you're.
0:19:53 - (John): Our website looks terrible in that. And so we spent a lot of our time optimizing web in the beginning before.
0:20:01 - (Mike): That's interesting because I have found something very similar. I think you're right. The way you prospect these days is totally different. And for instance, I mentioned that I do NetSuite development and next week here in Vegas is Sweet World from NetSuite.
0:20:15 - (John): Oh yeah.
0:20:15 - (Mike): I have dozens of meetings booked with people who have been talking to me over the past three, four weeks who are like, hey, I'm going to Sweet World. Why don't we finalize this discussion in person? And I love that because I personally think there's like, when I want to work with somebody, I want to work with somebody who has a similar belief system as me as far as how to do business. I've worked with various coaches and whatnot. And the reason it ends up not working is because either they completely don't understand me and don't try to understand me or my customer, and by being able to meet a person face to face, even on a zoom call like this, but especially in person, there's just something about that. There's no replacement for that.
0:20:57 - (Mike): This is my third year here in Vegas. In the past, I would actually travel into town during Sweetworld just because this is what people want. They want to meet you and shake your hand and have a drink or have a meal. It's interesting because now we have all this technology where we can meet remotely and yet more and more people want that hand holding and that touch point that they don't get through.
0:21:19 - (John): People are missing it. So funny is when the tech stuff was coming up and we were seeing more zoom stuff. So people fly out to see us when they spend the four to five hours they come out to Irvine, they spend it in the room, we have lunch together, we build that relationship on day one. That is 100% the way we do it. And I would say 90% of the clients don't do that over zoom. They come in for it, they fly all that extra time and effort. Why?
0:21:45 - (John): Because that personal collaboration in IT as a group physically makes a huge difference. Plus they get to see our company, they get to see other developers, they get to see that we're actually a real thing as opposed to just a online thing. And that I think changes the relationship a lot. And so people are, as more technology happens then the value of human connection is going to be at a premium. Scarcity creates value. You actually have this amazing opportunity now to say, hey, would you like to meet up together? Would you like to spend some time together?
0:22:19 - (John): I think that's a great investment of time. If it's a good relationship, you should do it.
0:22:25 - (Mike): I think it's also a good investment in money because I am now, this coming year, we've been working out a new strategy where sometimes you'll find you're getting a cluster of inquiries from Atlanta.
0:22:35 - (John): Yeah.
0:22:36 - (Mike): So then why not take a trip to Atlanta, get like a executive suite for a week or two and have people come and meet with you in person that you can maybe get the human element in there that is missing through, through the technology. And I think it's going to be worth investing in because we're growing like crazy and. But there's a limit to how far it can go. I think with the virtual meetings and I think just noticing how successful the in person suite world meetings are. I thought I was talking to my partners and I was like, we need to come up with a way to have a budget next year to travel places and meet up with people. And I understand that we don't want to go to every little small town in the whole country where people are, but if you could find places that are close to five of them and it's maybe a 25 minute drive for them, they wouldn't mind coming.
0:23:24 - (Mike): Especially if you're footing the bill for dinner or something. They'll sit there and talk with you. So now you've had two decades of experience as an entrepreneur. How have you seen the app development landscape evolve and how do you stay ahead of the industry trends?
0:23:38 - (John): It's interesting. That's been just an obsession, been on for a long time. It's just really, I think I just really like reading about it and knowing what's going on and I think that's just kept me in front most of the time. So instead of focusing on the Technology. And maybe this is why I'm normally right. I wouldn't say I'm always right, but I'm normally right is because I don't really think of it in terms of the technology, I think of the humans that are going to use it. So I'm really more focused on the marketability of something as opposed to it's neat. I'll give you an example.
0:24:16 - (John): 3D phones was something that I got a project like over 10 years ago and I hated the project. I said, I just like the application of 3D. I don't think it's very good. I don't think people really like it. And at the time, 3D movies were all the hype like everybody was really getting into because it was finally getting good. But now we have this new trend in movie theaters where you can get there and they move the chair around and all this stuff. And I'm like, this is just stupid technology.
0:24:46 - (John): Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. And so I think that is where people miss it. I'm always thinking about what is the marketability, how will the market be affected by this thing? Will people abandon current methods for this new thing? And I think by thinking in those terms you're going to have a better success ratio. That was Steve Jobs true gift was his understanding what the, what the market wanted.
0:25:15 - (John): He really had his finger on the pulse of what the market would use and that caused him to make really good products because he understood that. And I think that's probably where tech people really miss it.
0:25:27 - (Mike): That's also something that amazes me is that's also something that Bill Gates had the ability to do is look into the future. I remember reading long time ago, like in the 90s, reading the road Ahead and he started talking about the terminology he used wasn't as clear as it was today. When you look back of course, because you have 2020 hindsight, he talked about, oh, there's going to come a point in time where when you're watching television, if you can't get home till 8:30 and the show started at 8:00, it's no big deal, you still be able to watch the show.
0:25:55 - (Mike): He claimed that storage costs were going to come way down. He was right about all those things. But when he made the comment about the TV stuff, people were like, are you nuts? Unless you put a video recorder, there's no way you're going to be able to do that.
0:26:06 - (John): You're crazy.
0:26:07 - (Mike): What do we have now? Dvr? You even have Some streaming services where the show, once it started, it's available and you can rewind all the way back to the beginning, stuff like that. So he was right. I come home at 8:30, the show started at 8:00. I can watch it tonight, I can watch it tomorrow, I can watch it the next day. It doesn't matter. In fact, I think back to like how I used to watch, like entertainment and it's so different than today. I can consume it when I want. I don't have to be in a certain place at a certain time in order to consume what I'm looking for.
0:26:38 - (Mike): I think that's really interesting that these people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, they had such foresight and I think that's what actually one of the things lacking today. Everybody's putting all their eggs into the AI basket at the moment. And I actually, I've been turning down people for interviews because their main focus is AI. And I look back at like a hundred episodes and I'm like on 20% of the episodes about AI. I'm tired of talking about AI.
0:27:02 - (John): What's happening with the AI thing is what people forget is with artificial intelligence, it's garbage in, garbage out. You ask it a question, doesn't mean you're getting the right answer. It's like data. Data's the same way. If you don't have the data organized properly, you're not getting the answers you think you're getting. So you're making this human assumption about the data that you're receiving.
0:27:23 - (John): And that's the real big misunderstanding about AI is that you still have to prompt it properly, stuff like that. There's still this massive human element that's involved. And yeah, I think it's really interesting. It's just the hot button marketers are always going to follow whatever the sexy thing is that people want to hear. That's why you're seeing all these AI classes pop up. Because everybody's, oh, you need to know about AI. I'll be your teacher. And it's like, what qualifies you? I don't know, I, I just like AI. There's, there's so much of that going on and because it's the hot latest thing, people are jumping on board. But it's like Bitcoin a few years.
0:28:02 - (Mike): Ago and to your point about garbage in, garbage out, there's a story that I've told on the show multiple times that I read this article about this woman, her son went to a birthday party where they did one of those bouncy house things. And he. After the party and for weeks he was complaining about not feeling well and getting spells of dizziness. And she'd take him to the doctor, sent him to a specialist, he sent him to another specialist and nobody could quite figure out what was wrong with this kid.
0:28:26 - (Mike): And she actually asked ChatGPT questions about it and never came up with an answer. And then one night she was watching a video online and someone mentioned garbage in, garbage out, and that you have to give it the right data, et cetera. So this lady sat down at 2 in the morning, took all the medical records for her son and all the reports, typed them into ChatGPT and said, what could this be? And it came up with an answer. She brought it to the neurologist and the neurologist was like, it's possible.
0:28:51 - (Mike): Tried it, it was right, I'm not a doctor. Then when she fed it all the medical research, all the stuff that's been done on her kid, which was. It was like a stack this big. It got the answer and it got the answer, like it solved the problem. And I think that's what people need to understand about the. One of the things I love about chat GPT and the way it's laid out is that you can carry on a conversation with it and you tell it something up at the top of the conversation, it remembers it later on and it uses it. And one of the things my wife has learned, she does a lot of our social media and one of the things she's learned is the what you tell it determines how good what comes out.
0:29:29 - (Mike): And it's just a fact of life, man. You just have to give it the right information. And you're right. Like databases, I have seen some bad databases. And you're just. How are you operating with this? Why don't you let the listeners know how they could connect with you if they want more information or maybe they want an app developed.
0:29:46 - (John): Yeah, you can always go to naked dev.com but I would say one of the things that people are utilizing to get to know us is I have a free class a five day challenge for new founders that has been widely received. You can get that at seven figure app.
0:30:04 - (Mike): Awesome. We'll make sure that gets in the show notes.
0:30:06 - (John): Okay.
0:30:07 - (Mike): And of course it'll be on a card on the screen. Thanks so much for spending your time with me today. I know time is valuable and I really do appreciate you being here.
0:30:15 - (John): Thanks, Mike. I appreciate it.
0:30:16 - (Mike): All right, thanks everybody for watching another episode of Gaining the technology Leadership Edge. New episodes every Wednesday, 8am Pacific Time on YouTube and LinkedIn. See you next week.